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Old May 22, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56   #41
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My guild couldn't afford a sigil, so we played in the tombs. After 4 hours, we left with two of them. It pays to have a strong pvp guild.
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Old May 22, 2005, 04:18 AM // 04:18   #42
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Just go to EBAY. there are tons of items and sigils on ebay. SERIOUSLY... A friend of mine just bought one this way.
Last edited by Cporter[IM]; May 22, 2005 at 04:20 AM // 04:20..
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Old May 22, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45   #43
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I think this was suggested in this thread ,but maybe there should be some pve way to get guild halls,outside of paying. Why not have some huge pve mission, where one guild , and only it's members can do together. And have the reward be a sigil?
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Old May 22, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23   #44
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sigils should be a standard price of 40k and is always in stock at the npc..........theirfore people can use the G vs G system......instead of only a rare breed
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Old May 22, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29   #45
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Few soloutions to solve the PVP idea-
If your sigil is from the HoH, your guild hall is somewhat better ?
Make sigils from HoH untradeable (not a good idea)
Make a limit to how many sigils a single player can win each day/month/week.
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07   #46
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Originally Posted by Jab
I think this was suggested in this thread ,but maybe there should be some pve way to get guild halls,outside of paying. Why not have some huge pve mission, where one guild , and only it's members can do together. And have the reward be a sigil?
Because the sigil grants you Guild vs Guild which is PVP. Hence, the only way to prove your guild is worthy is to win once in the tombs.. it's really not all that difficult.
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56   #47
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Originally Posted by Tomo
Few soloutions to solve the PVP idea-
If your sigil is from the HoH, your guild hall is somewhat better ?
Make sigils from HoH untradeable (not a good idea)
Make a limit to how many sigils a single player can win each day/month/week.
Actually, that IS a good idea. Make 'em sellable to the merchant but completly untradable to other players. This would insure the merchant would almost always have 'em, and eliminate price gouging. A.net can raise the price of sigels on the merchant to make sure that even at the highest possible stock she can have, that it still costs around 25-3ok, and at the least perhapes 8ok. Also raise slightly the price the merchant will buy off the player. Since the sigels would be untradable to players this would also virtualy eliminate the campers.

Now, how to add to it so it's not taking away from PvP rewards?
Last edited by Madjik; May 22, 2005 at 02:08 PM // 14:08..
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Old May 22, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21   #48
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Well, I guess I'm going to hafta camp the trader. That's about the only way to get one under 100k now. And our very small guild would have no chance in PvP. We don't want to GvG. We simply want our "own" place to meet and talk, etc. This is absolutely ridiculous.
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Old May 23, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51   #49
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Originally Posted by thorizdin
Sigils are entering the economy 24 hours a day at a sustained rate of about one every 15 minutes or so. That means that approximately 100 new sigils are generated every day. There are enough different teams going to the HoH that no one has cornered the market. Right now there is a huge in rush of people who want to buy a GH, in fact this is probably the peak. We are one month into release and people are getting their characters ascended or nearly. At no time in the game's life cycle will sigils be this valuable, its not speculation at all its simple economics, the laws of supply and demand.
You make a very excellent point. The value of sigils will decline (not the price in gold, but the value. Inflation will still screw up the price), especially when most guilds get them (which is sooner than one might think). After that, one or two new guilds may want them, but the "proud owners" of these will have to sell them relatively cheap...

If everyone really wants the price to go down, then most people would have to stop wanting to buy them. As for ANet screwing with it, i am against that. I recall them saying "player-driven" economy...

If you have patience young grasshopper, the Guild Hall will come...
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Old May 23, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19   #50
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Originally Posted by Sadye X
Were you mainly interrested in pvp, your goal in pve is to simply unlock skills / runes / item upgrades correct ? So say you get a drop for a major rune, but you don't manage to salvage it. No worries really, since you'll still have that rune unlocked for your pvp characters to use either way. On the other hand, a person interrested in pve, and completing the mission sequence gets the same rune drop, also fails to salvage it and guess what ? They get zero benefit from the same drop other than a small handful of common crafting materials. Balanced ?
Brains please? If you're a PvP player, you MUST have a lot of major runes for at least several builds. If you're a PvE player, you don't need even one rune, you'll be just as good without any runes at all. Balanced?
Don't forget that you can't open runes for your PvP characters by buying them while you easily can buy any rune for your main PvE character(s). It's much harder to buy a rune for a PvP characters because you need to change builds and you have only 4 character slots (more than enough for only PvE but too little for PvP chars + PvE/farming chars you need to have to participate in PvP).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadye X
I don't disagree in the slightest that there should be a major pvp award, and never have.
Sure you are. Guess why? Because you can't get it.

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Originally Posted by Sadye X
My point is, it takes as much skill as an individual and working with a team to complete the mission sequence as it does to land yourself a win in the HoH ... yet where's the reward to balance the two ?
Try HoH first then say something like that. Since when AI can give the same competition as a live players?

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Originally Posted by Sadye X
Right now I'm only one mission away from having finished them, and as I said in my other post I've yet to see a single major or superior rune drop, nor a single rare weapon for my primary ( necro ).
Well, i was forced to farm runes either, i didn't get anything from completing missions. So the net result is that you can perfectly complete all PvE without any runes but you must farm them if you want to PvP. So your point is? You're not happy because you think you aren't rewarded enough for PvE? Don't make me laugh. I got that celestial sigil for PvP. Does it give me something? Absolutely nothing! I'll gladly exchange it to an ability to open one rune for my PvP char, but guess what? I can't. That's utter bull shit, it's not a PvP reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadye X
So I've had to buy runes / items just the same as a pvp character as I can tell you from experience that drops by no means get better or more frequent the further you get.
For you it's hard to get them just for one PvE character? And that is a problem? How about several PvP characters? How about farming them to open them for PvP instead of just bying? Do you really need them like a PvP character or it's just another fancy thing to have on a PvE character?

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Originally Posted by Sadye X
And in the meantime I"ve had to buy all my armor sets etc, which as mentioned previously a pvp character gets for free.
Don't make me laugh. It costs so little that i even didn't bothered to check a collectors who may have the same armor pieces, it's easier just to buy it and don't waste time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadye X
Oh, and the pvp character doesn't have to worry either about failing to salvage their runes from one armor set to the next, costing even more for runes if you don't get the drop yourself, which again, once unlocked for pvp you never have to bother with that issue again. Again I ask, do you see balance there ?
No, seriously, do you really believe in what you're writing here? I doesn't have to worry about failing? Try to unlock runes for several PvP builds in the first place then tell me jokes like that.
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Last edited by Ellestar; May 23, 2005 at 06:21 PM // 18:21..
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Old May 24, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41   #51
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Brains please? If you're a PvP player, you MUST have a lot of major runes for at least several builds.
Really? You MUST have them? Who decided this?

Quote:
If you're a PvE player, you don't need even one rune, you'll be just as good without any runes at all.
Incorrect. If runes benefit PVP players, then they will certainly still benefit PVM players and you cannot make a statement that a player without them is "just as good".
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Old May 24, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16   #52
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http://www.guildwars.com/news/gameupdates.html

Read right under the gold letters that say "Future Updates"

GG sigil problem. ANet wins again
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Old May 24, 2005, 09:25 AM // 09:25   #53
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Future Update

In order to combat the rising cost of Celestial Sigils and thus allow more people to buy guild halls and experience the guild warfare aspect of the game, we will be substantially increasing the number of Celestial Sigils entering the economy. Starting with this week's update, whenever a team wins a game in the Hall of Heroes, that team will receive three Celestial Sigils instead of one. We will also be making improvements to the trader to allow his prices to more accurately reflect supply and demand within the game.
Excellent!
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Old May 24, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15   #54
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PvE characters have the advantage of being able to just economically buy runes from other players, though. The economy for unidentified salvage items just doesn't exist at the moment, so someone looking to unlock runes can't easily convert, say, stockpiles of gold or nice weapons to a set of unlocked runes.
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Old May 25, 2005, 04:45 AM // 04:45   #55
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OMG -- Thank YOU!! I could NOT agree with you more Sovet! I started a small guild just for my real life friends that picked up the software. Thought it would be cool. Turns out I've recruited a few cool online ppl as well, and now we have about 12 members. Many of them, myself included, are first time MMORGPers. First time PvPers too. I get sick an tired of going to the pvp arena and standing there....waiting....no one interested. Why? b/c i don't spend extra money for gamespeak or Vent? I want to win the HoH just as badly as anyone else out there. What a boost it would be for our small guild to say "Hey we have a hall" and we EARNED it. But like me, many of my guildmates have gone in quest of the sigil only to stand there with their thumbs up their butts for 25 minutes - totally ignored because they aren't a MONK. I can fight. First time pvper doesn't mean idiot. But so many "veteran" pvp players are quick to say "MINE MINE MINE" when it comes to the guild hall. What makes YOU deserve something that I or my guildmates DON'T?

Reading over many of these threads I get the distinct impression that PvE players aren't as good or as talented or as necessary as PvP players. The Elitist attitude stinks so bad you can smell it from pre searing ascalon. Me, I don't care which side I log into, so long as I can play. And I can't FORCE any guild member to make a PvP character now can I? So how does a small guild make all their *special* dreams come true....

Maybe someone else can answer that...
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Old May 25, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04   #56
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Raysbebe..

Unfortunately you are going to have to be patient and HOPE that the new fix on the sigils does some good. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. After sitting here thinking about it a bit, I don't see that fixing anything at all. The ones hoarding sigils will continue to do so. The ones with enough extras that they are selling them on Ebay will just have more to sell.

Given the elitist attitude of many of the PvP crowd, even were ANet to make the sigil untradable and only sellable to the trader, a lot of these people would probably just as soon trash them than give anyone not having their mindset a chance at something as basic as a guildhall.

You have to remember that for some bizzarre reason, many of these people don't seem to think that they can play if they don't have everything available to them. And since they HAVE to put in all that effort, the rest of us who just enjoy the game for playing it and want a hall mostly for the privacy or to simply have one .. just don't deserve it unless we get one the way they did.

It is sad to see the division in the players at such an early juncture after release.

The thing is that it is also an unfortunate fact that a lot of guilds are small.. Mine is about the same size as yours.. around 12 people.. Only a few of us even have lvl 20 characters at the moment. Trying to recruit new people is a slow process if you want good people that work within your guild structure. While I wouldn't mind doing GvG at some point, it isn't a big deal.. However, having our own place IS. Luckily we managed to buy a sigil when they were going for 25-30k.

Now for all you PvP people, I know some of you had to have taken offense to me generalizing your attitudes. But look at how many of your compatriots have expressed themselves. Elitist and Holier than Thou. Just because PvE people don't get their jollies from a steady diet of beating on other players doesn't mean they don't deserve to have guildhalls.. I don't even want to see the sigil become worthless to the winners of them.. Those folks worked hard and deserve their winnings. Make what they get from the trader something substantial like 15-20k per unit or so.. not a small sum of money for an hour or two's work, and beter than any PvE player can manage.

This game is not all about PvP and it isn't all about PvE. Each facet has its concerns and needs. I believe most of the "I HAVE to farm and grind to PvP" is something the PvP players have done to themselves. But I also think there needs to be a better system for them to acquire things than is currently in place. It would cut down on a lot of the resentment between the two groups of players.

As for my fellow PvE people. Yes, we deserve equal access to the sigils. Yes it is a problem. But look at it from the perspective of the PvP side of things. The sigil and the legitimate right to brag their asses off are the only rewards they get for PvP'ing for all the untold hours they do it.. I gotta admire anyone that has that much focus and dedication, even when I dislike the elitist attitude. We don't care to go play in the HoH to get what we want in the way of sigils. They don't want to HAVE to PvE to get the skills and items that they seem so insistant on NEEDING. WHy do you think they are all so pissy about their one piece of glory?

We all know that ANet looks at these forums and even occasionally makes use of some of our ideas. If we want to see our concerns addressed in such a way that the majority of BOTH sides can be happy, then we need to work together to come up with a workable solution or two and stop all the damned bickering.

SO... I propose that everyone take a step back and make a reasoned look at the current problems we face and start coming up with feasible ideas that will work for all of us.. Not just your 1/2 of the game. That means no flaming or slamming each others ideas, but giving your own ideas and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to the ideas of others. If you read an idea and think it should work.. say so.. If you don't think the idea is any good, say specifically why and propose an alternative idea that you believe should work.

Don't get upset if someone disagrees with your ideas.. Look at them all and try to find merit in each thing and between all of that we might actually come up with a decent and balanced proposal for ANet to consider.

Just remember that this game isn't just about YOUR favorite side of it and try to consider ALL sides when coming up with ideas.. and DO try to avoid the idea of making it two seperate games in one box.. Think of ways to make it work the way the Devs hopefully intended it to.
Last edited by Corwin_Andros; May 25, 2005 at 07:09 AM // 07:09..
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Old May 25, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53   #57
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Nice post corwin. I hope people take the time to read all the valid points in it. I tried this once in another thread but ended up getting ignored Remember, Guildwars Guru is an official forum and website, we arent the only ones, but we do get read. In the month or so i've been here i've already seen several ideas taken up and enforced in game. It's a pleasure to see the devs taking such a huge intrest in thier game and being so active about it. So use that to your advantage and if you think what a.nets done isnt enough, find a way to make it work on both sides. Remeber that a.net wants its player base to be happy, the more that agree on a certain thing the more likely its going to get implemented. Majority rules. If you dont like a certain idea, simply disagree with it and counter it with one of your own. simply bashing one idea after the next isnt going to get you anywhere.

Although honestly, i think maybe we should try it first and see what happens. It's cool to speculate, but the truth is ya never really know till it happens. Lets give this a few weeks first.
Last edited by Madjik; May 25, 2005 at 01:47 PM // 13:47..
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Old May 25, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56   #58
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Indeed Corwin, one of the most intelligent posts on the subject I have read. It is my opinion that the current fix will not really fix anything. I think some ultrahard, long, drawn out quest in the Underworld with 1 Sigil as a random drop for the participants would be a good solution. If a PvE guild really wants a Sigil and they are skilled enough, they can brave a 4 or 5 hour trip through the Underworld to get one, assuming of course that they survive.
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Old May 29, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56   #59
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yea i agree with Corwin. i have myself looked at both sides of this issue even from the Pvp side being a PvE myself. i like to pk every so often but i enjoy exploring alot more.

my guild atm is really small just alot many others. i am also selective about its members and only want people in my guild who arn't necesarily the most skilled but also a good person. however at the moment i only have what 5 members? they are all people i know in real life. it's hard recruiting more members especially at when you only have 5 and you dont have a guild hall. i was hoping to recruit more members to help pay for our sigil, but the problem is alot of players won't join a guild unless there have a sigil, or atleast that's been my experience; i myself don't probably would not join a guild unless they had one so i can understand. basically you need more members to help buy a sigil but need the sigil to help get more members lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
Indeed Corwin, one of the most intelligent posts on the subject I have read. It is my opinion that the current fix will not really fix anything. I think some ultrahard, long, drawn out quest in the Underworld with 1 Sigil as a random drop for the participants would be a good solution. If a PvE guild really wants a Sigil and they are skilled enough, they can brave a 4 or 5 hour trip through the Underworld to get one, assuming of course that they survive.
i would not mind a really long and hard quest either Lasher, or even some bonus mission. for my the problem is i am the only person in the guild to be close to the Underworld. so i would have to probably do the quest with strangers, which i dont mind. However then only one person in the group gets the sigil which would still in my opinion, bite.? otherswise if the whole group of 6 got them and could keep getting them it would really unbalance the amount of sigils. in diablo2 they actually marked your character once you killed the cow king so you could not reopen the portal to the secret level, but then people figured out that they can just tag along with some else who can open the portal (so tagging won't work to keep people from repeating the quest to earn sigils).

however a one time quest for a guild could work, perhaps from the sigil trader herself or that guy that stands next to her, even better is that guy on the boat that takes you on the tour, so that you could all meet up in kryta then he could take you to the sigil traders. that way people won't have to travel to the ends of the earth to even start the quest. also if they made the quest available only to the leader it becomes a one time quest and that way guilds only get 1 sigil per guild. this way the quest won't become profitable. they would also have to make so once a guild can only do the quest once. for example my Guild is "Hounds of Creegus" make it so the guild is tagged as not being able to repeat.

~Jerhyn Soen
Last edited by balmung; May 29, 2005 at 03:58 PM // 15:58.. Reason: logic
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Old May 30, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17   #60
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Well I think the Underworld and The Fissure should be two places that there should be a chest at the very end with one sigil in it should be a way to allow PvEers to have a chance to gain one..
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